Yahoo Lifestyle How Guy Pearce Explored “Extreme” Power In ‘The Brutalist’: “I Suppose On Some Level It’s The Donald Trump Version”
Given the number of indelible performances he’s given since breaking out world-wide with only his third big-screen appearance—The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert in 1994—it’s astonishing that Guy Pearce doesn’t have an awards shelf creaking with the weight of career-affirming statuettes. That could change after Brady Corbet’s The Brutalist, an epic drama (complete with 15-minute intermission) co-written with Mona Fastvold, in which an emigrant Hungarian architect, László Toth (Adrien Brody), seeks political asylum, and a creative outlet, in post-war America. As the ultra-rich Harrison Lee Van Buren, an apparent philistine who becomes Toth’s artistic champion, Pearce steals the show.
Here—speaking from the sanctuary of his home studio, surrounded by an impressive (and tidy) display of guitars, keyboards, and all manner of color-coded cables—Pearce reflects on his near 40-year career in TV and movies. Surprisingly, after discussing some of his finest roles, including his Emmy-winning turn in Todd Haynes’s HBO series Mildred Pierce, the actor, now 57, was more than happy to talk the talk back his roots, revealing his part in convincing pop superstar Kylie Minogue to return, for one last time, to Ramsay Street in the cult Australian soap opera Neighbours, where he made his first screen appearance in 1986 as the aptly named Mike Young.
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DEADLINE: How did you become involved with The Brutalist?
GUY PEARCE: Well, it came about in a very easy way, to be honest, because Brady had expressed an interest in me playing the role. So, it went via my agent in America. I’m trying to think when that was… Maybe two and a half years ago. It was quite a while back.
DEADLINE: Did you know Brady before that?
PEARCE: I’d heard of him. I’d heard of Childhood of a Leader, but I hadn’t seen it. So I did some homework, and read the script, and I pretty much loved everything I was witnessing. Then I got to chat with Brady, and it just felt like one of those opportunities that was exciting, because it felt unusual and unique. It’s funny when jobs come along, because there’s a whole range of responses. Sometimes you can feel excited by the director, but the script needs work. Or the script may be great, but it’s the director who you don’t feel particularly inspired by. This was one of those ones where it all felt right.
DEADLINE: How would you best describe the script?
PEARCE: It was long, it was big, and it was detailed. I found the way in which the characters were realized quite intriguing. From an acting point of view, the stuff that was in there was just really interesting to me, in terms of how one might play a character like this. I don’t remember how many pages it was, but I certainly got the sense that it was quite epic. I think it was probably longer than most other scripts I get. The intermission existed in the script, with the photograph that we see on the screen while the rolling intermission takes place. It was very clear from the outset that he had a vision. My memory of it is that it was pretty much the same as the finished film. Like Chris Nolan and Memento, the finished film is pretty much a mirror of what was there on the page.
DEADLINE: So, nothing changed at all?
PEARCE: With someone like Brady, you just feel that there’s a real sense of exploration — of human behavior and psychology — that leaps off the page. So, if anything was trimmed or shaped slightly differently, I don’t really remember. I just remember feeling that Brady was somebody with a great sense of heart and a great desire to explore human interaction, and human foibles, and strengths and weaknesses.
I think I said to him at some point, at the end of the process, “Look, if there’s anything you ever want me to come and do, I’ll do it.” Because, with Brady, you feel like you’re in trusted hands. You’re in the hands of somebody who has as much interest in trying to understand people as I do — in fact, more so — whereas some films are far more about… Just other things, I guess. Obviously, every film involves people. But I’m always more interested in the inner workings of a human being than I am in — perhaps — ideas, even. I’m just fascinated in dynamics between people.
DEADLINE: How did he picture the character? Did he give you the script and leave you alone, or did he give you homework?
PEARCE: No. If I’m going, “I’m not seeing this, you need to give me a bunch of homework in order for me to understand what it is you’re trying to say,” then I think we’re in trouble. That’s not to say I haven’t done jobs before where I’ve done research, and I’ve delved in, which I probably would do just out of curiosity to a degree anyway. But with this I felt like I was able to see this character as I was reading him. Which is, to me, always the best. I do my best work when that’s my response. It’s always the most enjoyable and exciting experience where I almost feel like I could start filming the day after I’ve read the script.
I’ve been on films before where I go, “OK, the director seems to have some interesting ideas, but I can’t quite see the character yet, so I’m going to have to cobble some stuff together to try and find it.” Sometimes you really do find it. Maybe there’s a little clincher moment. Like a photograph, if you’re playing a real person, or a photograph of someone else who makes sense to you. You might see something in their eyes and go, “Aha! Got it.” But if I don’t get that, or if I don’t at least feel that, then I feel like I’m fudging it. I feel like I’m cobbling something together and trying to present something which just doesn’t feel authentic. [Laughs.] And then we’re in trouble!
DEADLINE: What was the eureka moment here? What was your way into Van Buren?
PEARCE: Well, just reading the script. It was very clear. He’s worked hard for his life, but what he’s attained for himself translates into a power, where he feels an ownership of the space that he’s in, of the people around him. I went to a private school, growing up, and I still am friends with some of those people from school. Some of them have become very wealthy. I witnessed this power that these people pursue. I guess we’re all trying to identify ourselves. We’re all trying to feel confident in what it is that we do in our lives, and to feel OK in the world, and the way in which we do that varies. For some people, once they attain certain things, or once they become successful, they go, “Aha, that’s the thing that gives me my identity!” That can present itself in an obnoxious way, or it can present itself with great humility, and there are six million variations in between.
The interesting thing about Van Buren, I think, is the way we see him in that very first scene he’s in. Obviously, he’s triggered by a very emotional moment; his mother’s about to die and there are trespassers in his house. We get to see the explosive, unstoppable train that he knows he can be to get what he wants in life. But then, in the second scene, we see him be quite touching. He’s in a cafe with László. He’s realized, and he’s learned, who László is, and he’s actually moved. One of the things Brady said to me was, “Look, Van Buren has great taste. He’s got a great sense of artistry and a great appreciation for the finer things in life.” But then what comes into question is this: Is his appreciation for László because of his skill and artistry and brilliance, or is it tinged with envy and complication? It’s like Salieri; he can recognize the genius. And the more he recognizes it, the more he’s frustrated by it, because he doesn’t actually have it himself.
You see the two extremes of Van Buren in those scenes, and I thought there was something interesting about that. Apparently, my grandfather was the same. My mother’s father used to get horribly drunk every night and scream and yell. I don’t think he was ever violent, but he was violent in his energy. The next morning, when he’d sobered up, he’d be saying, “Oh, come on, what’s wrong with you all? How come you’re all in a bad mood?” It was really almost schizophrenic behavior, because everyone else was then on eggshells going, “How do I deal with this person?” But I think [for the film] it was important, as did Brady, to present a character who had a heart, and sensitivity, and had an awareness of artistry. So, our audience is going, “Well, I don’t know what to do with this guy because I’m scared of him. But I do feel sympathy — to a degree.”
DEADLINE: Van Buren’s attitude to László changes when he reads about himself in a glowing magazine article — “A Millionaire Amid His Moderns” — and realizes that his work validates him as a man of wealth and taste.
PEARCE: It says so much about power, and when I use the word power, I mean just in our own internal way. Like the moment in the store when someone’s trying to sell you something and you don’t want to buy it, but you feel a bit powerless in the moment. Or maybe there are little moments throughout the day when you do feel confident — you feel like you have power — and those around you are affected by that. But, obviously, with someone like Van Buren, it’s more extreme. I suppose on some level it’s the Donald Trump version: the bigger, the better. That’s what gives him his power, because he sees people swoon at his feet. [Pause.] It’s funny, actually. I mention Donald Trump because I was watching a documentary about him on Netflix recently [Trump: An American Dream]. When you see him younger, there’s less bravado, there’s less…
DEADLINE: Less pomposity?
PEARCE: Yeah. He doesn’t have his empire yet. Once you’ve got your empire, you’ve got to hang onto it. You’ve got to dig your heels in and go, “No, no, no, I deserve this.” Whereas in the beginning, there was a slightly more humble approach. Clearly, Trump, as we know, was trying to not only live up to his father but probably outdo his father, in a way. So, in the early days, he was having to work out how to do that. Then, of course, in later years, after he bought all his casinos, built all his buildings, he really believed that he was the man. And if you’re not going to be humble about it, you become this inflated version of yourself. It’s so difficult to deal with, when you’re watching someone like that, isn’t it? You know there’s some humility in there, but they’re not prepared to show it anymore.
DEADLINE: Did any of that occur to you while you were making the film, or is this something you’re reflecting on now?
PEARCE: No, no, no. I feel like my character had more class than Trump. I’m only reflecting on him now, I think, because I’ve just watched this series recently, where I’m reminded of what he was like as a younger man. But, no, I don’t think I thought of him at all when I was making the film. I just happened to catch a bit of the documentary. I was like, “Oh, that’s right. That’s what he used to be like…”
DEADLINE: How did you feel about shooting in 70mm?
PEARCE: Well, as far as the cameras go, you’re aware of them, they’re just a bit noisier. It took me back to when I started. Not that I was shooting 70mm when I started making films, but I do remember them being noisier, shooting on film versus the digital cameras we’ve all been using since 2000. So, I was aware of them, but then you forget about that pretty quickly, because, obviously for [the cast], it’s really about the actors you’re working with. Once you’re into the moment of the scene, then it’s all about that interaction.
DEADLINE: What was the atmosphere on set?
PEARCE: I’d worked with Felicity Jones before, and I just adore her. She’s so lovely and really lovely to be around. Joe Alwyn I’d worked with before, so there was a lovely sense of familiarity. I hadn’t worked with Adrien before, so it was pretty impressive to watch him work, I have to say. And Brady, he’s just really relaxed. I always know if something’s not working for Brady, he’ll happily go, “Maybe let’s just try [the scene] a bit like this….” I never felt like, “Oh God, this guy doesn’t know what he wants.” It’s never that feeling with Brady. It really is just a warm, lovely embrace, and off you go
It was funny, of course, because we were filming it in Hungary, most of it, but it was set in the States. There’s always that slight disconnect when you’re shooting, because it happens quite often that you’re not shooting in the place that it’s set. But in a way, it was a nice feature, because Adrien’s character had come from Hungary to America. So even though it was 2022 instead of 1945, or the early ’50s, we were somewhat reminded of the world that he’d come from.
DEADLINE: What other locations did you shoot in?
PEARCE: We went to Italy as well, to the marble quarries, which was really sad, actually. Really quite depressing to see the destruction that’s been done to these natural mountain sides that have been dug out and chopped up for generations now. It was extraordinary and overwhelming. We went up quite high. You have to really trek up some very treacherous roads to get to where we went to. It’s all very beautiful, but as I said, it’s quite disturbing to see what has been done there, the destruction that has occurred, it’s something to behold, and of course it looks wonderful in the film, but it says something about what we do as human beings to our natural environment.
DEADLINE: Did you have a chance to rehearse with Adrien or were you thrown in at the deep end?
PEARCE: We were thrown in. We had a little bit of time at the beginning when we got there, but we weren’t really rehearsing per se. But the thing with Brady is that the whole thing felt like we were able to rehearse as we were going along, even though it was a tight shoot, for want of a better expression. It wasn’t a five-week shoot, I think it was more like nine weeks or eight weeks. Again, Brady has a very relaxed energy, so he really allowed us to just make sure we all felt good about each scene before the cameras started rolling.
What often happens these days, which I find really frustrating, is because most things are shot on digital, I’ll start rehearsing and the first A.D. or the director will go, “Well, let’s just shoot the rehearsal and see what we get.” Which I find really hard, because it’s very different for me rehearsing something as opposed to shooting something. As much as people say, “Just treat it like a rehearsal,” I can’t. If I know cameras are rolling, then the cameras are rolling. I’m quite anxious during that rehearsal period as I’m trying to find things, trying to lock things down and trying to explore. I want the freedom in rehearsal to do that. I come from a theater background, and so I’m used to a rehearsal room where you genuinely are rehearsing before you get up in front of the audience to do it.
I often believe that most people don’t really understand what actors do. They think, “Well, you just do it, right? So, we might as well roll camera.” To that I just say, “Well, we might as well roll camera before the lighting guys set up their lights too, or is that not OK with you? So, if it’s not okay with all the other departments, how come it has to be OK with us?” [Laughs.] Look, there’s a lot of positive things about being an actor, and we are lauded much more than we should be. But there are times, workwise, that I really struggle with. But The Brutalist was an instance, obviously, where everyone was like, “We ain’t rolling camera until we’re ready, because we’re shooting 70mm film and it’s expensive. We don’t want to waste any of it.”
DEADLINE: I’m astonished at how prolific you are, given that you put so much into your roles. Do you ever find yourself wishing to take a break? How are you able to pack and unpack these characters and then move on?
PEARCE: Well, I don’t know, I’ve gotten better at it these days, and some characters stay longer than I think they might. But I’m pretty ready once a job’s done, it really is an expulsion of something. That’s why I really don’t like doing reshoots—when they say, like. five months later, “We’re going to come back…”—because it really is a difficult process. Once I’m back in it, I can deal with it. But I did learn many years ago to take decent breaks in between jobs, and that has to be at least a month at bare minimum, particularly now that I have a child, and I want to spend time with him. But some jobs, especially if they’re emotional, can be really quite exhausting. If it’s an emotional rollercoaster for the character, then you go through it yourself as well. I just want to then come home and tend to the flowers and muck around in my studio and just be myself—really be myself—again.
I have had experiences where I’ve gone from job to job to job too much, and it’s taken a toll. I’ve realized that I’ve been stuck in the old character while I’m still trying to create the new one, and I’ve messed myself up. This happened years ago, like, the late 1990s. Then I did it again 2005, 2006, 2007, I jammed too many things together, and finally went, “Hang on a second, I’m falling back into the old trap again.”
I think we’re taught as young actors that there’s not a lot of work out there, so you’ve got to make hay while the sun shines. You don’t think about all those big gaps in between jobs when you’re starting out, all you think is, “When am I going to get my next job?” You don’t actually think, “No, this is valuable, this time that I have in between jobs.” So, when you do start getting a few more offers, you start packing a few things in together, and then you go, “Oh, hang on a second. I need a break.” You learn that the hard way if you’re fortunate enough to get offered a number of things. I’ve been really lucky, just balancing it, I guess.
DEADLINE: Which roles took that toll on you, would you say, back in the day?
PEARCE: When we did Factory Girl, I played Andy Warhol and that took a toll. Not so much because I was exhausted from it, but we also had a weird experience. I don’t mean to use the term “weird” flippantly, but we were going to shoot that film in New Orleans in 2005. We all got to New York and started to rehearse, and we were about to head down there when Hurricane Katrina hit. So, the film was put on ice. We all just hung about in New York for weeks and weeks and weeks, which ended up being about three months. I took the opportunity to really indulge myself and get to meet as many people from Warhol world as I could.
It was a really fantastic opportunity to play that role. Of course, the film unfortunately didn’t end up being as good as I’d hoped. Sienna Miller did a really fantastic job [playing Warhol’s tragic protégée Edie Sedgwick]. All of us did a really good job. But afterwards I realized it was hard to let go, because then I went quickly onto something else, and Andy Warhol kept coming through. It wasn’t that I was exhausted, and I was trying to find my energy, I just realized that I just couldn’t let go of Andy Warhol. He was a very specific personality.
[Pauses.] What other jobs? When I did The Proposition, that really took it out of me emotionally. The Rover took it out of me emotionally. There were the ones where the obvious reason, too, is that you’re out in the desert, you’re working in really trying conditions. But that’s great. I love that as well. But then you get home, and you just stare at the wall for weeks, going, “Wow, I’ve got nothing left.” So, yeah, there’s been a few that have had different effects.
It’s funny, I was just thinking about Mildred Pierce, which I did with Kate Winslet. I remember when my agent called me and said, “Kate Winslet and Todd Haynes are doing an adaption of James M. Cain’s novel, and they would love you to play [Monty Beragon]…” I was like, “Just say yes. Say yes.” Then they were like, “Well, we’ll send you the script. Have a read, have a think.” And I was like, “No, no, no. Kate Winslet, Todd Haynes, James M. Cain, HBO. Just say yes.” [Laughs.] I did the job, and it was delightful. It really was. What was also delightful was that I was in New York for about five and a half months, and I only worked three days a week. My wife was with me, and it was glorious. In a way, I was spoiled on that job. Afterwards I went to Serbia, and I did this sci-fi action film, and I really couldn’t be bothered. I was like, “I just want to be Monty.” [Laughs.] That shift affected me in a different way. I remember after we finished New York, I said to my wife, “Are you going to come to Serbia with me?” She’s like, “No, no, no. I’ll see you when you’re done.”
DEADLINE: What’s next for you?
PEARCE: Well, I’m right in the middle of doing a film right now, actually. I’m doing The Woman in Cabin 10 directed by Simon Stone, with Keira Knightley. I’m just taking a little break. I’m back home now for a few days, but I’ll be intermittently involved with that until the end of November. Then, obviously, publicity for The Brutalist really kicks in as we get closer to the release
DEADLINE: What’s next for you music-wise? Are you doing another album or is it just for fun?
PEARCE: Well, no, I always want to make music, but I’m going through a whole lot of old demos. Since having my son who was born in 2016, I really haven’t found the head space to be able to really indulge in music like I had done prior. But I’ve collected 6 million demos that I’ve made that I quickly muck it around on guitar and quickly record something in a little digital recorder and then forget about it. So, whenever I’m at home now and I’ve set up this room with lots of lovely gear, as you can see, so I’m going through all those bits of demos and just getting them up as rough songs going, “Is this any good? Could this be a song?” So, I’m in that process of trying to work out if any of it’s any good and if I can do anything with it.
I love mucking around with equipment. If I could be a recording engineer or producer, I’d probably prefer to do that than anything else, to be honest. I love sitting in the studio and finding sounds and orchestrating and arranging.
DEADLINE: One final question. I was looking at your CV and I was astonished to realize that it’s been 30 years since The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Did you mark that anniversary, or did it just pass without incident?
PEARCE: Well, there were a few interviews that we did. A lot of people were talking about it. The funny thing is, we always make films a year before they come out. So, for me the 30-year anniversary for Priscilla was actually last year because we made it in ’93. But, of course, I’m aware that ‘94 was the big year. But yeah, I agree. It’s pretty surprising to go, “Wow, was that 30 years ago?” But then I looked at a clip of the film and I went, “Yeah, I look about 15 in that.” My skin was amazing back then. So yeah, it’s pretty funny to think of how long ago it was.
As you probably know, I popped back and did a bit more on Neighbours recently, because we all thought it was going to finish. In fact, it was finishing. So, a bunch of us went back for the finale, and then of course Amazon picked it up and then I’m like, “Oh, but I just moved back into the street with [Mike’s ex] Jane [Annie Jones]. So, I’ve now got to get myself out of the street again.” So, I’ve had to do these bits and pieces to extricate myself from the show—yet again, like I did nearly 40 years ago now.
DEADLINE: Have they all been shown yet, those scenes?
PEARCE: Well, bits and pieces of them have, yeah, because that storyline that I’ve done has now stretched over a year. Most of them are FaceTime calls with Annie and the young girl who plays my daughter on the show. But it’s actually been really lovely, I have to say. I’m quite nostalgic about it. It’s done so much for me, it has meant a great deal, and I’ve gotten to make some wonderful friends out of it—Jason [Donovan] and Kylie [Minogue] and I are still really good mates. In fact, it was Jason and I that had to convince Kylie to come back on the show. It was a little bit like going back for a school reunion, in a way.
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