Yahoo Lifestyle MSNBC’s Primetime ‘Avengers’: Rachel Maddow, Nicolle Wallace and Joy Reid Assemble to Battle Cable News’ Old Rules
Joy Reid got the call while she was waiting in a restaurant at New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport to get on a plane to Paris. Nicolle Wallace received a summons, she remembers, when “I was in the middle of nowhere with my son and had no makeup.” To respond to similar requests, says Rachel Maddow, “I have made illegal U-turns on the state highway.”
When “The Avengers” are needed, no one can ignore the alert.
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Reid, Wallace and Maddow look nothing like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor or any of the other super-powered characters who populate the well-watched Marvel films from Disney. And yet, on MSNBC, where each anchors her own program, they are part of an assemblage that is being convened with greater frequency.
“When there’s a moment,” says Rashida Jones, MSNBC’s president, the network likes to “bring the team together and elevate the seriousness of the news.”
Maddow, Wallace and Reid join the rest of the hosts of the NBCUniversal-backed outlet’s opinion and analysis shows — Chris Hayes, Lawrence O’Donnell, Alex Wagner, Ari Melber, Jen Psaki and Stephanie Ruhle — in a concept that breaks down the hour-by-hour schedule so typical of cable news and attempts to turn a single evening’s coverage into an event. Rather than lead their own programs, the anchors join together in just one extended session. Internally, executives call the concept “The Avengers” and have employed it more than 20 times this year. Maddow typically leads the proceedings. On Sunday night, the group previewed the 2024 presidential election. Next up: Coverage of the actual event all Tuesday night (and maybe longer).
On a recent September evening, the “Avengers” were spotted clambering one by one into a studio. Their mission: to analyze the presidential debate between U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump, all from NBCUniversal’s New York headquarters. First came Chris Hayes –“I’m the only one who’s on time!” he joked — followed soon by Jen Psaki, armed with hot coffee; Maddow, entering quietly; a gregarious Stephanie Ruhle; and then Reid. Melber, Wallace and O’Donnell would join later, while Wagner held forth from Philadelphia, the site of the actual parley.
There’s no world-beating villain to vanquish when the MSNBC personalities team up, but they are in fact doing battle with pernicious forces.
More of the viewers who settle in each evening to watch a few hours of commentary on MSNBC are migrating elsewhere, as they are from other cable-news networks. MSNBC is projected to shed approximately 10.5% of its subscribers between the end of 2023 and the end of 2025, according to estimates from Kagan, a market-research firm that is part of S&P Global Intelligence. Rivals Fox News Channel and CNN are seen experiencing similar erosions in that period. MSNBC could be left with an average of 61.3 million viewers at the end of 2025, compared with 68.5 million in 2023 — and this with an election year, typically an event that brings viewers back to news, between the two milestones. Last week, NBCUniversal’s corporate parent, Comcast, revealed to investors that it was commencing a study of whether it should spin-off its many cable networks, potentially into a separate publicly traded company.
Many cable-news mainstays are devising new programming concepts that move away from the industry standard of single-host opinion programs. More blue-chip sponsors are wary of such shows, which often align themselves with a vocal niche of progressives or conservatives. The hot talk that entertains viewers and spurs the social-media chatter that results can bring blowback to the advertisers that support it. In the most recent upfront ad-sales market, according to two media-buying executives, ad budgets allocated for news programming were smaller than in years past.
Many of the newest concepts on cable-news hinge on a group of personalities, not just one.
“The Five,” a late-afternoon roundtable, has ranked as the most-watched program on Fox News Channel for months. A late-evening counterpart led by one of that program’s co-hosts, Greg Gutfeld, has also been a success. MSNBC has earmarked two hours on Saturday and Sunday for “The Weekend,” co-hosted by Symone Sanders-Townsend, Alicia Menendez and Michael Steele. Previously, two of those anchors led their own hours. CNN’s daytime schedule is filled with several hours of “News Central,” a program that features two or three anchors on set at once. CNN has also gained notice with “NewsNight,” a 10 p.m. weekday program that thrives on crosstalk among an array of strong personalities. It’s hosted by Abby Phillips.
“I think it’s valuable for people, no matter how they watch MSNBC or how much they watch,” says Maddow of the group format, noting that viewers who work may not get a chance to see Melber’s early-evening program, while those who can’t stay up late miss Ruhle. Having everyone take part, she says, “gives people a way to sample all that we are offering, in a way they wouldn’t otherwise have.”
In an aggressive bid to expand the concept, CBS News will, after the election, launch a group-led version of “CBS Evening News,” which has largely relied on a single anchor since its earliest days as a show anchored by Douglas Edwards, then Walter Cronkite. John Dickerson and Maurice DuBois will co-lead the program with help from “Face the Nation” moderator Margaret Brennan and weather contributor Lonnie Quinn.
These programs can help news outlets, these days under intensifying economic scrutiny, generate new hours without having to hire new talent to staff them. And the panels, stocked with multiple top personalities, give viewers something new upon which to gaze.
Even so, these shows can be dangerous if they aren’t managed properly. If the discussions aren’t governed strongly, “it’s a cacophony, a lot of people talking. It’s difficult to control in which direction they go,” says Jamie Spencer, a chief operating officer at Magid, a market-research firm that has for years advised local and national TV news organizations. “What is likely an effort to bring more people together, to increase trust, likely has the opposite effect.” CNN last week banned Ryan Gidrusky, a conservative panelist guesting on “NewsNight” from appearing on the network after he made a threatening remark to commentator Medhi Hasan, while discussing support for the Palestinian state.
To be sure, managing a large group isn’t easy. Behind the scenes, MSNBC has two different executive producers keeping the “Avengers” in motion. Cory Gnazzo typically oversees Maddow’s Monday-night program on MSNBC, while Patrick Burkey is deeply involved with special events, including Election Night, as well as Wallace’s daily “Deadline: White House.” Producers who usually work with each anchor are on hand as well.
The goal is typically to let the different anchors speak, and not rely so heavily on outside guests (Hillary Clinton was once booked on a night when MSNBC went to the “Avengers” format, and the network made sure to use her appearance as part of the proceedings).The producers acknowledge things work better when everyone is in on set in New York, with Alex Wagner occasionally dispatched to give viewers color and detail from a particular place or event, like a national convention. Producers might nod to Wallace for insight into campaign strategy, or inside-the-White-House analysis, or Hayes for commentary via a progressive lens, or Ruhle for business and economic analysis. But there’s also a lot of juggling, particularly when the panel convenes on news that continues to unfold.
“The plan we carry into the control room with us looks nothing like whatever ends up on television,” says Burkey.
Maddow is “the captain of our ship. She is Captain Kirk,” says Reid, referring to the commanding “Star Trek” character. Indeed, Maddow works to map out who might jump into the discussion coming out of a commercial break, and is often maneuvering to showcase one person who might have to leave to get ready for a later show, or another who must depart the proceedings early. In some instances, producers must change most of the configuration of hosts on set without the benefit of taking a commercial break.
MSNBC has grouped anchors together at many times in its history, but the “Avengers” concept really started to gain traction in 2022. That’s when one executive in a brainstorming session raised the idea of trying to harness the conversation that takes place between the network’s hosts for an on-air concept, says Jones, as “if you listen to them talking in the hallway.” Viewers would see “collegiality” and “authenticity,” she adds, and someone asked, “’How do we make that the show?’ And that’s how it was born.”
At the same time, Maddow, Wallace and Reid noticed an intensifying of the conversations they would have every day, often via text. They might discuss what their sources are telling them or their takes on different issues. Getting that on camera made sense, says Reid. “What the audience is getting out of that is our collective journalistic enterprise — but in triplicate,” she says. “It’s so much more powerful when we are all doing the work at the same time.”
Having a big group makes the task of holding tough conversations an easier one, says Wallace. Calling a big assemblage for the evening signals to viewers “the gravity to the story we are covering” and creates an environment where it’s less scary “to say what you think the reaction might be or what you’re really thinking about something you have just seen,” she adds. “I do believe there is a sort of collective candor” that happens when MSNBC brings all the hosts to the screen at once.
That candor can also surface behind the scenes. All the anchors bring things to eat while they work, but Maddow often carries a large bag filled with various kinds of jerky that she always offers to her colleagues. The overture is not often welcome.
“Nobody eats that but you, lady. Why are you offering me beef that is dried and in a bag?” asks Reid. “I’m not eating beef from a bag!” Maddow says she often has a wide variety of jerky products on hand, some of them made from tuna or turkey. “It all smells like cat food,” she acknowledges, but the container she brings is so large, she feels it would be rude not to offer some to her show-mates.
Only one person has taken her up on the snack, and immediately regretted doing so. Jen Psaki accepted a piece of jerky, and, upon putting it in her mouth, looked nauseous, but was still too nice to protest. A trash can had to be procured so she could spit it out.
“Listen, I would follow Rachel with no real food and no bathroom breaks into many, many hours of special coverage, but I definitely learned the hard way that the beef jerky was a bridge too far,” says Psaki, via email.
“I don’t bring jerky products to the set,” notes Wallace, who has been seen snacking on peanuts, Skittles and M&Ms.
No matter. The “Avengers” format gives MSNBC executives many other things upon which to chew. In TV, any idea that is seen as successful brings with it the pressure to try it again and again. Yet doing so could undermine the importance already attributed to the large gathering of anchors.
“They all do excellent shows on their own,” says Gnazzo. While he could see convening the group around other types of events that may not have as much import, “I don’t think it would be great to have it once a week.” Most people involved agree that the grouping signals to viewers something very important is up and that putting it on TV too often would render it less effective. The network has a duty “to not over pump the audience’s adrenal glands,” says Wallace. When the group comes on screen, “there is a sense of, ‘Oh my God, what happened?”
Indeed, several networks are testing the use of scarcity in programming. Comedy Central’s landmark “Daily Show” lured back stand-out host Jon Stewart — but he only appears on the late-night series once a week, ceding other days to other staffers on the show. Fox Sports has built a pre-game show for special Major League Baseball broadcasts that relies on all-stars Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz. But the three former ballplayers only work a handful of games each season – like the World Series and the All-Star Game.
Maddow has been an architect of the strategy. In 2022, she decided to pull back from hosting MSNBC’s 9 p.m. hour Monday through Friday in favor of devoting more time to other projects. She hosts “The Rachel Maddow Show” only on Mondays, but the “Avengers’ strategy has put her on camera more often than many viewers might have thought would be possible.
“I made a promise that when you need me, I’ll be there,” says Maddow about her appearances on the network.
MSNBC does see an opportunity to create other ways for its viewers to interact with a broader group of hosts, says Jones, the network’s president. Perhaps there’s a way to capture some of the group’s dynamic in audio, she suggests, or in a series of live events MSNBC has started to create. As for seeing more of the “Avengers” on TV, she says, “we will continue to find opportunities as the news cycle allows. The one trick is that it has to feel organic. You can’t force it when it doesn’t make sense.” Note to Reid, Wallace, Maddow and their colleagues: It won’t hurt to keep your phones charged.
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