‘The Penguin’ Showrunner Reflects On Series, Including Why It Was Easier To Sympathize With Sofia: “She Was The Closest Thing To A Hero”

Lynette Rice
·7-min read

SPOILER ALERT! This story contains details from the final episode of The Penguin on HBO.

HBO’s dark tale about the rise of Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot has come to an end, and not surprisingly, the limited series from Lauren LeFranc has left us with a few burning questions.

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Why did such a major character have to die in the finale?

Will Sofia ever get out of Arkham?

Is Oz’s mom actually lucid?

Is Batman about to save the day?

LeFranc provides some answers, along with what to expect in the future from the classic DC villain.

DEADLINE Oz’s decision to kill Victor was so shocking in so many ways. For one thing, he needs allies in this world, especially moving forward. Doesn’t he?

LAUREN LEFRANC I would think so, but Oz doesn’t see it like that. With the gangs, he has the number twos take out their bosses. That’s very poignant in his mind. That’s Victor’s idea, in part, so that shows you a lot more about Oz, as well. He hopes the people beneath those bosses will feel indebted to him. That’s sort of creating his own coalition, one that he could maybe tout as more democratic than it is, but one in which he holds the power.

DEADLINE Did you intend for the viewers to end up sympathizing more with Sofia than Oz? We can understand why she turned bad because of the way that she was treated, whereas it just felt like Oz was born damaged to the core.

LEFRANC I do try to bring empathy to all of the characters I write. It was really important for me, especially in the beginning with Oz, that you really empathize with him. Regardless of his terrible decisions, I also never wanted to make excuses for him. I wanted the audience to see who he was out of the gate, and as we unravel him, we see there is something that is a little bit off about this kid. So many of his choices were to show how desperately he wanted to be with his mother, how an impulsive decision he makes with his brothers becomes quite calculated as time goes on. I think the tragedy there, or the despicable way Oz had so many opportunities to tell someone what was going on with his brothers in the tunnels, is that he never said a word. With Sofia, I do view her as the closest thing we have to a hero on our show, even though, of course, she’s not. It was really important for me that we align ourselves with Sofia as well, because otherwise I think everyone would be cheering by the end for Oz. And I wanted it to hurt in a way, his rise. That’s largely why I created that fourth episode. I thought it was really important for Sofia to have a full episode where you got to really experience who she was as a character. Some people will align themselves with Oz and some with Sofia. That is the fun of having complicated characters like this.

DEADLINE Sofia is back in Arkham. Why is Dr. Rush there?

LEFRANC We established in the fourth episode that he chose to leave on his own volition. He’s reinstated himself to be close to her and to try to help her this time around. Obviously when we see her at the end, she’s not in an emotional place where she’s ready to receive that.

DEADLINE Obviously we are all dying to hear what was said in that letter from Sofia’s half sister. I’m assuming we’ll find that out in season two?

LEFRANC I don’t know. We don’t have a season two right now, and we’ve always been the bridge between the first film and the second film. That was always the goal of this season. So any payoff to anything that we’ve established in our show would potentially be in the second film or deeper past the second film.

DEADLINE You put The Penguin in tails in the end!

LEFRANC Yes. Colin and I talked a lot about that, about imagining that he came from an event of a certain caliber, a certain class, to justify that Oz would be in a penguin-esque tuxedo to show that he’s achieved a level of power. He’s in a penthouse, but he’s still in the east side of Gotham and Crown Point, and it’s dilapidated and abandoned. So it’s not really the dream that he imagined for himself. We teased that building throughout the entire season. It’s an abandoned hotel, and we established it in all of our Gotham skylines throughout the season. That’s been sort of our Easter egg.

DEADLINE We saw Oz’s mom cry. So does she still have her wits about her?

LEFRANC She’s in a vegetative state. What that really equates to is a little unclear medically for a lot of people. She can breathe on her own and she’s alive, but how conscious she is of her surroundings is, honestly, a little unclear.

DEADLINE Does Eve truly love Oz or is she just playing along?

LEFRANC That’s a complicated question. I think Eve and Oz have always had this history with each other, and in my mind, she was his first sexual experience. She’s also older. It was always important to me that Eve is a little older than Oz. I mean, [actress] Carmen Ejogo looks great, so I don’t know if people really have necessarily realized that. There is this motherly quality that I’ve always tried to infuse in her. And yet, Oz pays her. His whole thing to me has been that love is transactional. It’s his greatest fear, but it’s something he really abides by. And so when he realizes he can’t get his mother’s love in the way that he believes he deserves, and certainly the last time he was interacting with his mother — she told him he was the devil — he creates his own delusion with Eve. He pays her to be there with him and tell him everything that his mother won’t tell him. Eve is a survivor. There is an affection that Eve has for Oz, and it is her choice to still be with him.

DEADLINE Did you always know that you wanted to end with the Batman light in the sky?

LEFRANC Yes. That’s something that we figured out early on. It felt like an elegant handoff to the movie. That was always a conversation that Matt Reeves and I had. Should Batman be in our show or not? I know it became sort of a controversial thing to say that he shouldn’t, but it really just felt like it was detracting from our characters. Batman takes up a lot of space. So in that regard, it just didn’t feel appropriate for the characters in our show. If Oz has now achieved a level of power where the Batman is noticing him, that’s really what we wanted to signify in the end.

DEADLINE So you’ve basically explained what’s going to happen. There’s going to be a movie now and then theoretically another season of The Penguin if HBO so desires?

LEFRANC Well, I don’t know. Right now, no, we don’t have anything. We’re not really talking about in a second season at this very moment. What we’ve always known is that we’re handing off from the first film. We’re the bridge between the first film and the second film. And beyond that, there’s nothing that I can say that is in any way suggesting there’s a future or not.

Colin Farrell at the HBO premiere for 'The Penguin'
Colin Farrell at the HBO premiere for 'The Penguin'

DEADLINE What did you make of Colin’s comments about how he never wanted to wear those prosthetics again? Did you take him seriously?

LEFRANC First of all, Colin is the kindest, loveliest, best number one on a call sheet you could ever wish for. He’s extremely talented, of course. And what’s so funny to me is that when he was telling people he was grumpy and complaining, I was like, I’ve never had that experience, nor has anyone on our crew. He’s just like a consummate gentleman and handled the makeup chair so gracefully. So I don’t know. I mean, I’m sure he felt a lot of things. I know that Oz, as a character, becomes very dark psychologically as we unravel him more and more in the show. And Oz as a character has to do some really, really terrible things. That is not an easy thing to inhabit. I certainly felt that as a writer. Writing a guy like Oz, it starts kind of fun and freeing, and then you’re like, wow, this is a very distorted way to live in that level of darkness, for so long. But I know Colin will be in the second film.

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