Johnny Bananas calls out 'bulls---' final twist on “The Challenge” season 40

Warning: This article contains spoilers for The Challenge: Battle of the Eras finale.

Karma didn't come for Johnny Bananas Devenanzio by the end of The Challenge season 40, but he's still calling out the "bulls---" final twist of having eliminated players' votes impact the game.

"I could have sat in the corner and read a Bible the entire season and not made waves with anyone in the house, and my Karma vote probably still would've been the same," Johnny tells Entertainment Weekly. "That has nothing do with Karma. It should have been called an envy vote or a jealousy vote — the simple fact is people are envious and jealous of the amount of times that I've won, and they don't want to see that happen anymore."

After seeing his allies give him low Karma scores all season long — including Leroy Garrett's shocking vote of one — he hopes to never see this kind of twist again. "My own best friend gave me a one, that should tell you everything about why this vote was complete bulls---," he adds. "I do think it's stupid that they put so much power in the final outcome into the hands of people who lost. You basically let losers determine the fate of the winners, and I just think that's a very strange thing to do."

By the end of the two-part finale, Johnny finished in third place behind Jordan Wiseley who won for the guys, and Derek Chavez who came in second place (Kyland Young finished in fourth and received no money). "Sucks to lose, but at this stage in my career, just making it to a final for me is a huge win," Johnny says.

Below, Johnny breaks down the final and gives an update on his post-season 40 relationships with Michele Fitzgerald, Devin Walker, Laurel Stucky, and more.

Related: The Challenge season 40 female winners talk historic tie: 'It's really a feel-good ending'

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: How are you feeling about how the final ends now that you've seen it all in the episodes?

JOHNNY BANANAS DEVENANZIO: There were two major things working against me in this final, one of them being swimming against Jordan. He is just a freak athlete in so many ways, but when it comes to endurance, that really is what sets him aside. The only swimming I do in my regular life is swimming to the pool bar to get a mojito. When we got there and heard what the format was going to be, I knew it was going to be an uphill battle. Then when TJ dropped the Karma bomb on us, that's when things went from bad to worse, because I knew that that was not going to bode well for me.

At what point did you realize there was no catching Jordan and it was a race for second place between you and Derek?

Day one. The swim was so far. I mean, one length of the swim from the boat to shore is basically double the longest swim I've ever done, personally, on a Challenge. And just on the first day, we did that four times. So we knew it was going to be a battle for a second. Unless Jordan got eaten by a shark or something like that, there was no catching him — and even the shark would've probably had a tough time catching him.

Is there any checkpoint where you realize now that you could have overtaken Derek?

Yeah, I was ahead of him day one. I really messed up — I would've probably won the coin counting, but what I did, because I'm stupid, as you're sitting there you'll be like, "Oh my God, did I overcount or did I undercount?" Once I had my final tally, I subtracted 200 thinking that I definitely, over the course of the night, probably overcounted by a couple hundred. Turns out I didn't because the exact number in the bag was 6,000, and I said 5,750 or something like that. So had I not subtracted 200 off, I would've been within 50 of the final, because I guess I did better than I thought I did.

And then the outrigger canoe, my boat filled up with water as soon as I took it off the platform. And then halfway through, my boat sank, so I had pulled it to shore, dumped the water out, and somehow, I still beat Kyland. Poor Kyland. But even had I placed second, it would've been so close between Derek and I and his Karma would've still overtaken me as second place finisher. Third place is where I was going to be regardless. Jordan may have won when it comes to the final at the end, but I stole the show. Would I rather go through an entire season where I just kind of float through, don't want to make any TV, and win at the end, or basically be the center of attention of the entire show and still come in third? I mean, I'm taking that all day long at this point. I'd love another win, but I go to make good TV.

True: There's no alliance called "Jordan's Angels" this season?

[Laughs] There definitely is not.

Related: The Challenge's Cara Maria reveals why final season 40 elimination got so intense

There's been a lot of talk this season about how Laurel gave you the low Karma vote, but then we see in this episode that Leroy gave you a one and that was even more shocking to me. I can't even imagine how you felt about that.

This is why I have trust issues! They all stem from The Challenge. Literally nobody has my back except for me. It was difficult to watch to see Leroy give me a one, but I honestly don't think that he necessarily considered the impact that that might have. He was the first one eliminated, and that early on in the game, you're not really looking at it like this one vote could make or break a person's final. It sucked to watch, but I truly don't think that Leroy was doing it to prevent me from winning. I think he just did it because as far as what he perceived the backlash would be for him potentially helping me win again over somebody who hasn't; whereas Laurel was doing it to help Jordan win and to prevent me from winning and to hurt me. Leroy was just doing it to — I honestly don't know. I wish I did. I wouldn't have done it. But some people play the game differently, I guess.

Have you talked to him about it? Has he apologized or explained why to you?

Yeah.... I told him, "Dude, you realize that you've now put us both in a position where we're going to have to answer some pretty silly questions about this. I know where your loyalty lies, and I know what a true friend you are, but there's going to be this question, 'If Bananas was so harsh on Laurel giving him a one and his own friend did, he needs to have the same energy.'" It didn't even really register to him that it was a big deal, and he was like, "Dude, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that it was actually something that was going to affect your game." I think where Leroy's at as far as The Challenge is concerned, he shows up, he does his thing, but as far as the drama, he's just kind of over it and checked out. I don't think it was done with any malice or ill will.

After everything that happened this season with Laurel, what's your relationship like with her now?

We're fine. We still talk. It is just tough. It's really tough feeling like this world that I've spent so much time in and I've dedicated so much of my life to and so many years and brain cells and whatever else that when I show up, I am pretty much alone. But I understand why. It's just that people don't want to see the same person have any more success than they've already had, and they kind of want to spread the love. So I do separate my relationships on the show from off the show. I'd rather have nobody have my back because they fear me and because they don't necessarily want to see me have any more success, than everybody supporting me because I can't win.

Related: The Challenge's Cory responds to backlash over MTV's portrayal of Nelson's drunk driving accident

Speaking of keeping your relationships off the show separate from the game, let's talk about you and Michele. There’s been a lot of talk about where your fracture began, and we saw it all blow up at the start of Devin and Michele’s relationship this season. Since they’re still going strong today, do you regret getting involved at that moment?

No, because in that moment, that's exactly how I felt. This was not a game move. When I intervened, this was in the infancy of their on-again, off-again relationship, showmance, whatever you want to call it. I was a concerned friend and I wanted to make sure that she wasn't making an ill-informed decision based on the environment that we're in, because sometimes you do things on The Challenge that you wouldn't normally do outside — you date people or think you could have a relationship with people on the show that makes absolutely no sense off of it. I've been there, I've done that. I was stepping in as a friend, and there's nothing I would've done differently in hindsight. If anything, it was the way it was interpreted and disseminated to Devin that ended up causing this huge thing. He should and she should be thrilled that I was actually concerned enough about her and about their relationship to want to put my foot down.

Now — and this does come out of the reunion — Devin conveniently likes to forget that what I did this season, he's attempted to do it to me twice before. With Natalie on Vendettas, he created this stupid, ugly rumor about me and Kaylee having some ongoing love affair the entire season, which was not true, which totally blew that relationship up. We really didn't talk again, which was made up by him for game. And then again on Ride or Dies, he did it when I was in a showmance, relationship, whatever you want to call it with Moriah, where him and Tori concocted this plan to basically say that she was manipulating me and using me for the game to, again, try and drive a wedge in between the two of us. Devin likes to be able to interfere, do whatever he can, even if it means breaking up a relationship in order to further his position in the game. He likes to be able to dish it out and not take it.

What's your relationship with Michele and Devin like now?

I don't know. Michele and I still talk pretty often. My relationship with her is on much more solid ground than with him. I haven't really spoken to him much. I've tried to have her come on my podcast a few times, and I'm pretty sure he's not going to let that happen. I thought we left the reunion on good terms, but when you get your panties pulled down like he did on national TV and get embarrassed, that's a tough pill to swallow. That's going to take a while for his ego to recover from, if ever.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

The Challenge: Battle of the Eras reunion airs Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT on MTV.

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